"There is not a liberal America and a conservative America - there is the United States of America. There is not a Black America and a White America and Latino America and Asian America - there's the United States of America. "
"This is the moment when we must come together to save this planet. Let us resolve that we will not leave our children a world where the oceans rise and famine spreads and terrible storms devastate our lands. "
"We have an obligation and a responsibility to be investing in our students and our schools. We must make sure that people who have the grades, the desire and the will, but not the money, can still get the best education possible. "
"Change will not come if we wait for some other person or some other time. We are the ones we've been waiting for. We are the change that we seek. "
"In one week, you can put an end to the politics that would divide a nation just to win an election; that tries to pit region against region, city against town, Republican against Democrat; that asks us to fear at a time when we need hope."
"I'm not asking you to believe not just in my ability to bring real change to Washington, I'm asking you to believe in yours."
Even if you disagree with his politics, maybe you can find inspiration in his message. I sent my absentee ballot in yesterday and it feels really great ... much better than four years ago!
38 comments:
Well, you little liberal Mormon you! Me too!! Al is driving me crazy with election talk every day. I enjoy it up to a certain point. I will be happy when it is over!
I completely agree! I love being a liberal Mormon. The election is very exhausting and yet addicting. I was able to register to vote in Ohio so I am excited to see how that state pans out. Have fun voting :) We are sure excited for this time next week.
I am a Hilary fan, however, I do think that Obama is an excellent choice.
According to the experts at the NON-PARTISAN Tax Policy Center, Obama will actually provide more tax relief for families making less than $250,000 a year. McCain on the other hand will only provide tax cuts for those making more than $200,000 year. Last time I checked the vast majority of Americans made considerably less than $200,000. But to be honest I wouldn't mind paying higher taxes if they went to things like a national healthcare system. Healthcare shouldn't ever be considered a privilege.
Hey Sara,
I think we could go back and forth for days not making any headway. That doesn’t sounds like much fun to me! The last thing I want is to pick a fight with my sister-in-law’s sister! I will comment on a few points though but I sincerely recommend checking out Barack’s website. Each issue is outlines along with his policies and how he plans to pay for the new initiatives. http://www.barackobama.com/index.php.
About your comment about higher taxes, see Kristin’s comments. According to the Tax Policy Center, the Obama plan provides three times as much tax relief for middle class families as the McCain plan. In addition, families making more than $250,000 will pay either the same or lower tax rates than they paid in the 1990s.
Finally, the part of the quote “storms devastate our lands” is not referring to Obama’s ego or his Godly ability to move water. I think he is referring to American tragedies like Hurricane Katrina, where the government could have and should have protected and evacuated people more quickly. Bush’s administration dropped the ball thus “devastating our lands” and our people.
I obviously support and respect Obama. I might not agree with all his policies but he has certainly gained my trust.
Happy Voting :)
Kristin,
I agree about healthcare not being a privilege. I am currently without healthcare (sorry mom and dad!) and it is scary to think about getting into an accident where the medical care cost would bankrupt my family. Fortunately, I do have people in my life I can rely on like friends and family. But I can't imagine not having anyone to help me pay for such expenses. Too commonly in America families declare bankrupcy because they can not afford to pay for medical bills.
One of my favorite quotes has always been.
"I love you guys." Eric Cartman
There is never one person who anyone can get behind 100%.
Sara,
You are exhausting me so don’t be surprised if this is my last political debate with you!
I am skeptical whether you really want to understand my position on abortion since you questioned my conscience instead of merely asking about my position. I usually reserve my opinion on such sensitive issues to very close friends since it is something that people are passionate about, myself included. With that said, I will share my opinion because I think it is important for people to know why I am Pro-Choice (and not pro-abortion because that does not exist).
Before I address abortion rights, let’s talk taxes one more time. It is not essential that you agree with Obama’s tax plan or trust in its effectiveness. However, the facts are clear. He has clearly illustrated his plan regarding taxes in written form, spoken form, and it is supported by many sources both non-partisan and Republican. This is his tax plan… simple as that.
Claims that Obama is for partial birth abortion is in the same ballpark as claims to him being Muslim, a terrorist, or born outside of the US. I can only assume, since you did not reveal your source that you are referring to the Illinois state legislation in which Senator Obama voted present. If Obama was for partial birth abortions he could have voted no on that bill. However instead, he voted present because he is against partial birth abortions but there were terms of the bill he didn’t agree with such as how the bill helped undermine Roe vs. Wade and how the bill did not specify conditions for handling when a mother’s life and health are at risk.
On a personal note, I am pro-choice. No panel of primarily white males has to right to dictate what a woman should do with her body. I don’t even necessarily think abortion is the right choice. I think we must invest in more prevention against unintended pregnancies such as sex education that teaches children more than just abstinence. My conscience is clear knowing that I am supporting a woman’s right to choose for herself. In addition, free agency (a person’s right to choose) is the foundation of the Mormon church. It is not my duty to decide for someone else. Also, all abortions are not merely irresponsible teens using an abortion to dodge responsibility. (However in these situations, I don’t believe it is entirely the child’s fault. A comprehensive list of factors contributed to this child’s decision or inability to make an informed decision.) In the healthcare sector, when a mother’s health is in jeopardy and it comes down to her life or the babies, doctors will recommend “terminating” the pregnancy to preserve the life of the mother. How is this any different from a pregnant teen, or a rape victim, or any other circumstance in which a woman feels so helpless that abortion is her only conceivable option? We can not fully comprehend a woman’s state of mind in these situations nor is that necessary. And I will support and defend a person’s right to choose until the day I die, regardless of what I believe is right for my own personal life.
Hope this helps you understand my position on abortion more and maybe you can understand liberal Mormon who are Pro-Choice better.
First of all, I am glad that Krista explained her reasoning. I too have such a hard time with members of the church who are pro-choice. I still don't really get how it jives with our fundamental beliefs; I disagree with Krista's comment that "free agency is the foundation of the Mormon church." But in any case... I appreciate you (Krista) explaining how you came to believe what you believe.
I'm sure it's no surprise that I agree 100% with Sara. And I quote, "Those of us who are pro-life believe that the "choice" was made when the woman decided to have sex (rape excluded, obviously), and that the pregnancy is the consequence."
The spirit enters the body at conception, and terminating the pregnancy is taking a human life.
This issue is HUGE for me. Of course I really agree with the economic policy and other positions of the Republican party... but the REAL deal-sealers for me are the protection of human life and the sanctity of marriage. The moral issues.
I love that Sara & Krista were "discussing"....
But mostly I can't wait 'til this is over, and we can all be friends again.
I LOVE YOU, Krista! :)
Hi Krista, you articulate my thoughts exactly. I am very active in the church and a very blue Democrat. I think you can be both. I feel like the Democratic philosophies of helping the poor and the needy, love and respect for all people, and community actually align better with the teaching of the church than Republican philosophies, but I used to be a Repub and can understand why people identify more with that, too and respect their decision to vote that way. I will also say that I have 4-1/2 kids, have had many ultrasounds, and am completely pro-choice for the reasons you explain and more that I won't go on and on about here.
Hope you are enjoying the rest of your time in Dominica.
Did I miss the memo that members of the Church are supposed to vote Republican? There is a mistaken belief that a Mormon needs to be Republican, and one who chooses differently is somehow suppressing her conscience and allowing less important economic and foreign policies to indicate her political affiliation. I’m still trying to understand why it is acceptable for conservative members to be “one-issue” voters, while that is not okay for liberal members. According to many people, abortion is the issue I should be voting for. For the record, I am Pro-Life (but, I do agree with Krista that the title “Pro-Abortion” is ridiculous and too often criticism of the Pro-Choice position is accompanied with juvenile scare tactics). Nonetheless, my position on abortion is not my “one issue.” Does that make me bad? Am I ignoring the sanctity of life? How does my conscience allow me to vote for candidates that are Pro-Choice?
I find it offensive that Democrats (in the Church) are seen as radicals ignoring moral issues. I see universal health care, quality education, eradication of social class, welfare for the less-fortunate, economic trade linked to human rights, and the cessation of the death penalty as moral issues. That’s how my conscience allows me to vote for a Barack Obama. If you want to crudely breakdown my beliefs, I guess you could say I’m choosing the lives of the already born over the unborn. However, I am not disappointed, disturbed, or disgusted by people who vote Republican—I respect their differing beliefs and their right to have them. Oh, and this is coming from someone who had to wait over two years to see that first ultrasound of her very much-wanted son.
Anyway
Well, didn't you just open a can of worms?!!
As one of my former young women, I'm very proud of you Krista! I agree whole heartedly with your points - you state yourself very well!! It is time for our country to have some change. We need to think about how we are our brother's keeper. To me that is the heart of Christian values. If I have more and have to pay a little more to ensure that someone else can have healthcare, so be it. At one point in my life I had to get assistance- I'm grateful for programs that were in place to help my children have health insurance. So, on to the polls!!
Big Can of Worms!!! I am glad we could all have a "discussion" and have a fairly equal representation of pro-choice and pro-life voters. I have come to the conclusion that I need to blog about politics more because I get about 5 times the comments! I feel so popular. Feel free to continue the discussion... I think the dead horse has been beaten enough.
Oh... Angie, does the 1/2 child mean you are pregnant! Congratuations :)
Krista, yes, due in about 6 months. Kristen is dying for a sister, so we are trying to think pink. We'll see I guess. If it's a boy she'll just have to settle for 4 brothers because this is it for us. Sorry I've been bad about keeping in touch with email and/or blog. I know Dominica is going to be an experience that you look back on later when you are busy with work and kids and the minivan (LOL) and will really just be a gem of a memory.
I hope I will think that pleasantly of this experience down the road. We have less than 50 days now and we are both very excited! I will think Pink for you! Your baby and Kendall's baby can be best friends! Thanks for your contribution to my blog and I will try and be better at keeping in touch!
All I can say is that I have a major migraine from the ping pong match I read with all the comments. Go Mitt Romney. Oh I forgot, he's not running. Tuesday it will be all over.
I voted a few weeks ago. Kathy and me about cancel each other out, on most issues.GO OBAMA
Whippie! Too bad you don't live in a swing state :)
The horse is still alive and well!! I will act as a mediator from now on if anyone (Sara) wishes to comment. I appreciate your comments Martha and for contributing to this blog that began as a just few Barack Obama quotes :)
Sara,
When reading your response(s) my automatic reaction is a strong compulsion to ask you to please censor yourself. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with you on any of the issues you bring up, but would like to perhaps elucidate to you the tautological nature of your arguments. (I use "argument" because you immediately reduce Krista's opinion as immoral, completely debase of conscience, and I find it very sad that you presuppose your conclusion without arriving at it syllogistically.)
If one is endowed with free-agency it is their duty to use it; they should not, then, blindly make decisions on issues-- whether right or wrong, moral or immoral-- because they are affected by the institution-- who, consequently, was gracious enough to bestow such a gift upon them-- to feel or act a certain way. Such a line of thinking is complete mob-mentality; that is, an individual doesn't think but acts when, or as, their neighbor does because there must be a reason. To call this "reason" or "free-agency" is delusive; it is exceedingly important to define the terms with which you use to support your argument if you are attempting to dismiss another. It must be pointed out, too, that so long as we are "endowed" with this free-agency, so long as we experience the effects of consciousness, we will only further confound ourselves. But we must realize that this aspect of consciousness allows us varied opinions. In this regard, there is validity in every view, and there are only better supported views, which you have done a poor job of.
Rather than repetitiously staking a claim, do something with it. If you were to apply to yourself a lot of the same questions you are asking of others in this thread of comments, you would probably benefit. And just to follow suit, I will beg again: please realize that repetition is not a point of view, that such claims are both completely carminative and hackneyed.
Cheers.
Let leave Prop 8 for another blog, PLEASE! (But I do encourage free speech if someone feels impressed to “discuss” this topic).
Justin'aytch, who are you?
As the self elected mediator, I won't comment on Martha’s, Sara’s, or Justin's comments. Please don’t take this to mean that I agree with or disagree with the comments made. Even if I wasn’t hiding behind this role, I don’t think anything I would say could be constructive at this point. I think I need to re-read Justin's comments anyway because it was a mouthful! (My vocabulary is apparently limited… Word of the Day in my new iGoogle application. :) I will say that if we can strip away the emotional comments and personal attacks (on both sides), there are some interesting points that can be drown from what each person said.
Maybe at a later day, after the election hype has settled, we can have a more constructive discussion / dialogue on these important issues. Or maybe these issues will become dormant for yet another 4 years.
Best of luck voting today. Bring those portable DVD players!
Sara,
I have two reactions and that's it:
1)I realize I may have sounded condescending or hifalutin but did not intend to do so. I merely wanted to point out that you came out of the gate as accusatory, which makes it appear as though you're uninterested in having a civilized discussion that emotion is kept out of. If you automatically question someone's conscience they will take offense. I think Krista did a very good job at illustrating her view while staying objective. Your comments, however, were to the affect of "I'm surprised" and "how could any good Mormon feel as you do?" That, in my opinion, is completely unfair. Once you questioned her you proceeded to make no point regarding your opinion; you stated your view over and over again, but only left it at a statement. Circular arguments (that is, drawing tautologies) that are not supported by a logical and systematic thought process (that is, syllogistically), only prove to be repetitious to the point of becoming worn out (that is, hackneyed), and show that the individual is not speaking from the orifice intended for speech (that is, carminative).
2) The closing of point #1 leads into this one: language. I suppose my mistake was in the assumption that "big words" were comprehensible by literate individuals. Better to use few words, though perhaps "big" , and make a point than to use many and get nowhere. In context to a discussion such as this one here, it is very important to "analyze" words. The fact is, the whole thread was started over words ("My favorite Obama quotes"), and the questioning of meaning or intention of them! Always, always, be careful of what and how things are said; perception does not end with speaking, but begins, and is not synonymous with intention.
I will say this, and in support of you: I've known Martha for a long time and she is certainly very good at inflammatory statements. While unfair I do think it's important to realize that she does so because an issue is important and/or personal to her. This is not in defense of her, as I've had plenty of these types of "discussions" with her, and I can only leave reconciliation between the two of you.
Cheers.
This is one of the things that bothers me about blogs. What began as two sisters-in-law once removed with different political view points having a friendly discussion and an attempt at understanding. In jump Martha and Justin.....need I say more.
Oh, I just caught up and now I am jumping in too. I think Martha and Justin need a little whoopin'. Yeah, I use BIG words like that when I mean a serious beat down.
And Krista, you and your blog are lovely.
Oh my good heavens........ Martha needs to simmer down and let this go. She doesn't even know Sara. I think lively dicussions and debates are great. Heated and emotional back-lashings are not. Love all the opinions Krista, Sara, Kristin, Angie and everyone one else who understands the progess of debating. I'm proud of you, Krista.
For those who feel rebuked I will say one last thing in closing: I concede.
All the best,
Justin
Sorry Martha, Justin does not get off Scot free. If you re-read the comments, you'll see that he did whole heatedly jump into the fray, but with quite a bit of tact in his multi-syllabic comments.
Now I'mm off to do something more productive - read to a child, write a missionary, or even pet my dog!
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